Positive Energy: Positive Energy - My data belongs... to whoever has it
Monty
· 1 year ago
I'm not getting it here. I put my friend list on a billboard, anyone can copy it, sure that's fine. Anyone can publish it, that's also fine. But then the billboard company tells me they now own that information and I can't take it with me to the next place I want to share the info. That's just wrong.
Nobody is arguing whether Facebook has the right to use the data we kindly grant them the right to monetize. We're simply saying that Facebook's desire to embargo that data in order to preserve their revenue stream is total crap.
Once Facebook starts to get greedy they will likely lose the momentum. They've certainly lost me and I was a huge Facebook evangelist.
platypibri
· 1 year ago
More accurately, Arrington, Scoble and the rest rightly or wrongly believe they should be able to tell said billboard company to provide the information on the billboard in a format that they can take to a rival billboard company. When looked at that way, the demands for portability get shaky. I still have all of my friends, hobbies, interests, email addresses, etc that I typed into Facebook. But the fact that I typed it into Facebook does not obligate Facebook to spit it back out at me in a format I can take to Myspace. I think it would be good customer service to do so, but there is no reason why the should have to. Who goes to a printshop and demands the press plates (made from your files) to take to a rival printer. Nobody, and I don't know a printer who would provide those without a fee, if at all.
Ivan Stegic
· 1 year ago
@Monty I think you might be missing an obvious point in your first paragraph: you can still take your list with you, copy it down like anyone else does, and off you go. the problem lies in that you gave it to the billboard company in the first place, so now they can do whatever they want with that. just like anyone else who copies it down. shame on you for sharing it with them in the first place, right?
Scobleizer
· 1 year ago
Well, I never wanted to take the social graph data somewhere else. I wanted to stop having to fill out stupid forms and uploading my photo for every stupid social network I join. But then thinking about the social graph, I'd love it if these services could hook together and get smarter about each other. The fact that Upcoming.org doesn't know that I'm on Flickr.com (they are both from the same company) is lame and should be fixed in a way that also lets both know that I'm on Twitter, Facebook, FriendFeed, etc. As to taking the social graph to other places: Facebook allows that in the API it built. It just turned off Google, which I find pretty lame too. Finally, what about my photos and videos that I uploaded onto Facebook? I guess you don't think they should be easy to copy to your hard drive.
platypibri
· 1 year ago
I suspect the way we use these sites are pretty different. I have all of this stuff on 2 drives already. Even the stuff from my phone. And, I'm not uploading anywhere near the content you are.
I want to make it clear, I agree, I'd be more likely to start using, and continue to use these various services if they had data portability. I am already weary of filling out social network profiles. I guess I was just asserting that they do not have the obligation to port my data.
Of course, as it stands today, anyone who refuses to integrate with Google has the compass pointing towards stupid. And not listening to a power user like you, Robert (I find out about most of this stuff from your tweets) also not a sound strategy. Clearly, like the Disqus comments on this very blog, the easier it is to move around on the web, the more I do so. All I was ever saying is that it's their boat to sink.
fudged
· 1 year ago
whoever has it, should be able to do whatever they wish with it. agreed.
gregory
· 1 year ago
the own it thing is just about being able to move it where you want to...
the actual information, well, the model for all ads are revenue sites is to consider you as a consumer first, a person second... they want to target you, and will, simply with what you have given them... it is like giving a mugger a gun, then saying he doesn't own it as he mugs you...
erikstuart
· 1 year ago
@monty: there are 2 dimensions to the argument: 1) is Facebook obligated to help me do certain things with my data (e.g., enable easy export; share with other related services)? 2) does Facebook have constraints on what they're allowed to do with my data (sell, share, etc.)?
My position is 1) no and 2) no; it sounds like your position is 1) yes and 2) no (and a lot of people say "yes" and "yes"). Platypibri's take is close to what I would say, though I'd even go further and say that if anyone owns your friend list, it's Facebook, since whatever tangible form it has is sitting on their servers. If you took the trouble to build a system to copy everything you put into FB and store it on your hard drive, then you'd own that.
In case it's not clear, by the way, this is my take on religion, not business - Facebook isn't obligated (legally or morally) to treat your friend list in any particular way. However, for many companies, it may be a smart business decision to make data exportable; that depends on particulars. That's a strategic discussion, not a philosophical one - and both debates are interesting; I think it's the wrong idea, however, to combine the two.
All Comments
Nobody is arguing whether Facebook has the right to use the data we kindly grant them the right to monetize. We're simply saying that Facebook's desire to embargo that data in order to preserve their revenue stream is total crap.
Once Facebook starts to get greedy they will likely lose the momentum. They've certainly lost me and I was a huge Facebook evangelist.
I still have all of my friends, hobbies, interests, email addresses, etc that I typed into Facebook. But the fact that I typed it into Facebook does not obligate Facebook to spit it back out at me in a format I can take to Myspace. I think it would be good customer service to do so, but there is no reason why the should have to.
Who goes to a printshop and demands the press plates (made from your files) to take to a rival printer. Nobody, and I don't know a printer who would provide those without a fee, if at all.
I want to make it clear, I agree, I'd be more likely to start using, and continue to use these various services if they had data portability. I am already weary of filling out social network profiles. I guess I was just asserting that they do not have the obligation to port my data.
Of course, as it stands today, anyone who refuses to integrate with Google has the compass pointing towards stupid. And not listening to a power user like you, Robert (I find out about most of this stuff from your tweets) also not a sound strategy. Clearly, like the Disqus comments on this very blog, the easier it is to move around on the web, the more I do so. All I was ever saying is that it's their boat to sink.
the actual information, well, the model for all ads are revenue sites is to consider you as a consumer first, a person second... they want to target you, and will, simply with what you have given them... it is like giving a mugger a gun, then saying he doesn't own it as he mugs you...
My position is 1) no and 2) no; it sounds like your position is 1) yes and 2) no (and a lot of people say "yes" and "yes"). Platypibri's take is close to what I would say, though I'd even go further and say that if anyone owns your friend list, it's Facebook, since whatever tangible form it has is sitting on their servers. If you took the trouble to build a system to copy everything you put into FB and store it on your hard drive, then you'd own that.
In case it's not clear, by the way, this is my take on religion, not business - Facebook isn't obligated (legally or morally) to treat your friend list in any particular way. However, for many companies, it may be a smart business decision to make data exportable; that depends on particulars. That's a strategic discussion, not a philosophical one - and both debates are interesting; I think it's the wrong idea, however, to combine the two.